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aspect



Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 12



PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 8:12 am  Reply with quoteBack to top

Hi david,

I agreed on designing a building with networks of operations. Because every meetings with clients there involved design changes. However, every country and cities has their “protype” and each protype has there own criteria. Take Hong Kong for example, the residential towers has 8 protypes, flat size/window size/room width, depth are critical. The initial settings of relations of parts or criteria is very important and almost every offices varies. Most of the time, those networking may be too complicated for architects to comprehend, I picture that they may hire a Houdini consultants or a freelancer to set up their own library in the future.

The cost and sizing in Houdini will be a very preliminary reference materials for architects. Since cost/budgeting are done by quantity surveyor, they would be very grateful if u count the tiles for them, however, there are many factor affect the cost, most importantly is labour, being the ease of workflow is more critical most of time than quatity of materials.

I think it would be great to cover more on nurbs, since there are sops which works on nurbs surfaces only like creep/project/trim and these are very useful sops for archects.

I finished your tutorials and its been a great learning experiences and I already try some of the things I learn for my upcoming design, will forward to you when is done. The following are my afterthoughts:

The voronoise is very useful for architects and we mainly use it for organization, tilings and façade design. However, I had to admit that the vex for creating the center of attraction is quite hard for me to comprehend and most of the time we architects likes to work with multiple center of attractions like in here http://farm1.static.flickr.com/230/497557812_ace0ec5044_o.jpg . I also tried to experiment other pattern like cellular or Worley noises, may be I’m lack of knowledge for vex, many attempts http://farm1.static.flickr.com/214/497557808_265f6c80b1_o.jpg were not successful in making it into trace sop 3d objects. However, I can picture the vex would be a very powerful tool for architects in pattern designing and make it into 3d objects and to project/creep onto the different shapes of buildings.

The L system for geometry creation such as optimum packing with the magic number 135.7 are very intriguing. I can see this being apply to massing studies, the light distribution on urban scale.

There is a great architectural book on this issue, I think u can flip over it at the architectural book store. It shows the fundamental of algorithmic approach to architecture. And some of the topics also covered at your dvd also.
http://www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/1568...bscriptionId=108P28193HCTR2B9FAR2

here are more references site for algorithmic application to architecture:
http://www.futurefeeder.com/
http://www.processing.org/
http://www.proxyarch.com/
http://www.reconstructivism.net/

cheers!
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david gary



Joined: 15 Nov 2006
Posts: 29



PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 10:52 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Wow, that is some incredible feedback!

I invite everybody in the forum to explore your links. I've began already... awesome. I knew processing.org but processing remains a scripted language and i would like the world of 2d graphics and vector to share the same viusal node-based approach as Houdini, like Node-based flash design. Actually you can almost do that in Houdini, but there's no real vector export!


About Voronoise, Voronoi cells. Indeed, to have artistic control, you MUST define the cell centers first.
Actually this is done by the VEX operator, but this is hidden in the code. It spreads points randomly but uniformly on a surface, but this is a process you can override in shading for example with point clouds. Btw. If you have any questions about specific points in the DVD that remain unclear, feel free to ask!

About the magic number 137.5 in l-systems, yeah funny. I speak about it in the Lsys DVD, but i don't go into the mathematical explanations, but there's really interesting math behind. Nature is full of optimization, minimization process, like minimization of space ( for packing, or maybe the most spectacular is soap bubbles surfaces that materially resolve the problem of minimization of surface between two curves!). I can imagine how this can be interesting in architecture.

The book seems very promising i will give it a glance if i find it.

About Nurbs: yeah, i feel that it was a little left aside and that it deserves a full DVD, because you can achieve wonderful things with them and procedurally.

I can't wait to see what you've done with my tutorials. . Just post this in the Houdini WIP section.

-d
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izno



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 6



PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2007 9:46 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
I knew processing.org but processing remains a scripted language and i would like the world of 2d graphics and vector to share the same viusal node-based approach as Houdini, like Node-based flash design.


take a look at this project Wink

http://vvvv.org/tiki-index.php?page=screenshots

Quote:
Actually you can almost do that in Houdini, but there's no real vector export!


That is what I would like to know more about. Very Happy
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aspect



Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 12



PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:55 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

hi david,

i just have upload some of my work at the W.I.P section, everyone please feel free to advise for further improvement!! thanks in advance.

My further studies which I would like to develop further from the dvd is-

-To explore other vex+trace sop like cellular, which is very useful for façade design. I assume, the best way is too use creep sop and paste the voronoise geometry onto a tube or box geometry. Some examples I found –
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1054/576031932_1ad5c31513_b.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1320/576031912_e7aabb6195_b.jpg
http://www.materialsystems.org/
However, attempted had been make but not quite successful with the trace sop of developing geometry from the vex. http://farm1.static.flickr.com/214/497557808_265f6c80b1_o.jpg

-More control on the voronoise like developing multiple center of attractions or even 3d voronoise. Shown at this webs and also presented in TOOLING pamphlet architecture.
http://www.theverymany.net/labels/Voronoi%203D.html
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/230/497557812_ace0ec5044_o.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1019/576031862_d11a927e05_o.jpg

-The L system in application to architectural geometry, I know this may become a bit too complicated for newbies to explore. However, results would be quite promising as shown at this web –
http://www.mh-portfolio.com/indexl.html

- The magic number137.5 in L system is quite interesting to explore which also shown here & in TOOLING pamphlet architecture.
http://www.materialsystems.org/blog/?p=136
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1297/576031876_d03fb8cbe4_b.jpg

Really looking forward the next dvd and hope to be happening soon... and if anyone have any tips or link that help me to understand better with my explorations, that will be great!
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david gary



Joined: 15 Nov 2006
Posts: 29



PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 1:35 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Well, thanks A LOT again. Your contributions are always very exciting. Smile Smile

1)About Voronoi: a generalization of Houdini's Voronoi can be provided with Point Clouds. The difference is that you can define your own centers around which every cell is going to be built ( the standard way that Houdini uses is to create a 2d/3d grid, to place a point at the center and add some jitter to his position: this significantly speeds up the process of finding the closest points cos you already know that they will belong to the neighbouring faces of the grid, even if you don't know where exactly because of the jitter , so you don't have to loop over all the other points to find the closest ).
point clouds use this idea in that they « naturally », « natively » loop only over points that are within a certain radius from a certain given point, but with the advantage that the distribution of points is really arbitrary.

2)The l-system link is simply amazing. Well Lsys DVD no4 will be about L-sys recursive/iterative modeling, to expand the concepts of l-systems to Houdini l-systems to have totally scriptable l-systems ( which is not the case yet) and to have general recursion-expansion in modeling, so it will use the same concepts as those presented in the link, to animate the construction of a city.

3)I like these excerpts of the TOOLING book
I like their simplicty, their essentiality: « recipe for cracking, for packing ». I'd like to do the same for Houdini, like writing a « procedural pamphlet », where you have the recipe of « solving the problem by dividing it: the copy SOP », « doing the same operation with varying parameters for each object: VEX or copystamping », « sending info, everything is a channel: CHOPs », « geometry remain geometry, the SOP context », with a minimalist graphic style.
Apropos, though quite off-topic, do you know John Maeda, not an architect, a graphist, but graphists use to know architects and vice-versa . It's my favourite one ( i have to say i don't know a lot of famous graphists), i've written some sort of an « article » on him in french, about his ideas: this kind of minimalist and essentialist approaches reminds me of his works ( some of his were oriented toward the concepts of « reactivity », « reactive media » ).





4)Packing... i wanna say a little word about packing, like packing spheres. The « recipe » shows as simple it is that complexity arises with iteration, well here again, Point Clouds are useful.
You spread points on a surface, then you create circles around each point, their radius must be such that they don't overlap. So you find the nearest neighbour with point clouds: divide the distance by two, this gives you the radius of the circle, do this for each point. Your surface is partially covered, then spread points on void areas and continue. If you change the type of distance, you can do the same with squares. i will show this in the upcoming Vex DVD.

David
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aspect



Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 12



PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 8:28 am Reply with quoteBack to top

hi david,

congradulation on your new dvd, i just have received and very excited. hopefully i'll try some new magic and report to u later.
thanks for introducing John Maeda, i do like his work for its simple graphic but highly sophisticated implications, i found it very architectural, would try to achieve such effect in my work also.

here are some interesting architectural link i discovered recently for your enjoyment-

http://www.dataisnature.com/
http://www.processing.org/
http://ncertainties.wordpress.com/blog/
http://www.flight404.com/blog/
http://en.wiki.mcneel.com/default...cNeel/PointsetReconstruction.html

cheers herman
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izno



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 6



PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:42 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

if you like Maeda:

http://blog.ted.com/2007/09/john_maeda.php
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david gary



Joined: 15 Nov 2006
Posts: 29



PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:00 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Hey guys:


Aspect ( Herman):

Thanks for all your links. Very interesting as always.
Shapes in nature, morphogenesis are a renewed wonderment each time i saw them! When you see plants, cristals, seashells, patterns in nature, you really see that the nature is doing math, or inherently following mathemtical rules.
I say a little word about that in VEXSOPs2 dvd, about seashells: not only the shape of seashell is extraordinary but also the mechanism that produced their textures (even if the textures themselves are not always spectacular): these are "purely morphological, or morphogenetical" chemical reactions, which means that their equations are completely independant of the nature of the chemical substances: geometric chemistry if you want...
and this is "usually" implemented in CG with cellular automata: a set of cells with extremely simple behaviour that you let evolve in time.

I pretty much liked the info on point set reconstruction which is a universal task in CG: voronoi, delaunay, voxels.. Well put here.
I'm glad to have introduced you to Maeda: i think you have watch the link Izno posted. Quite funny guy!


izno:

thanks very much for this video with Maeda: i have read him, i have listened to him, but i never watched him on what we can call here a little one-man-show. I didn't know he had this kind of humor. It was quite funny ( and with the drums on the side: you really felt like sometimes someone is going to hit a "bu-dum-bam" when he says something funny).
Above all, he really likes to play: i mean if you take the example of "painting with food" ( just visually): well that's not something new ( PaintFX in Maya is based on this idea), but what really interests him is to play with the thing.
The show itself is more about him and his irony about life, about the MIT and japanese food! lol

-d
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aspect



Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 12



PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:21 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Hi David,

I enjoy very much with the VexSops2 dvd especially discovering the “compile vex code to sop type” which are very useful for modeling. However, I’m a newbie in vex and some of the procedure and vex code are quite deep to comprehend and need some time to digest. U mentioned about the cellular automata in the DVD which is what I’m eager to explore and visualize in sop, the same with the other function like the Worley noise, voronoi noise and cellular noise. There were many attempts to try it on my own but not quite successful. Wonder if they will cover in the upcoming DVD? Or any quick tips in this regards?

Thanks.
Herman
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quirkdee



Joined: 05 Jan 2012
Posts: 1



PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:03 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Hey guys,

I've been a modeler for years when it comes to architectural/industrial type design.  I have used the whole gambit of tools:  Paracloud, Grasshopper ( and most of its toys), Maya, Rhino, blah blah.  The standards that came about during this time (2005-2008)ish.  My curiosity has always lead my attention over to Houdini.  

I have limited knowledge of it but, have always keep my attention towards it.  My interest goes a little beyond what the discussion has limited itself to.  Parametrics, Morphogenesis, and Topological deformation has always been of extreme interest but we see this only come out at a small level.  Over the many years of architecture, especially during the 60s and 70s,  we have seen the idea of deformation come up through many ascepts such as chemical (state change), physical (soft/rigid), biological (life and death).  What we like to see is this set in still frame over a 4d flash.  A small set of individuals even looked at this type of poetics and link this deformation to the prose in a given song.

That said, it leads me into my question.  In a conversation with one of my friend, Houdini was looked at as the ultimate in 3d due to its development through the movie industry.  The 2nd phase of "Time Machine" was brought to light because of its seasonal change and landscape change.  This in itself intrigued me and I have looked  all over the internet to find more on this specific technique.  Plants that die and rot.  Beautiful.  

So,  Morph State I assume.  But, we see a bit more here.  Tropism and Phyllotaxis built into the method.  Crowd manipulation (such as what is seen in Massive or some of UCL work with syntax space).  This level of parametric change, to made useable and simple, would need to be in a node based system and need to have the polygon handling we see in programs like Vue.  Now, I suppose this little rambling is just for these subjects to be brought to a broader conversation of Houdini capability comparative to these other softwares and methodologies.

How far can Houdini go? And is it worth the effort for Architecture?

And.. hehe... can I use a poem as a parameter?  can a emotion be turned into a function?  Of coarse, this would have to be a psychological case studies such as the Chinese Room Experiment.  Thoughts?

-qd

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